As of 12/09/23 the natural bodybuilding subreddit has 240k members and is ranked Top 1% by size. In comparison, the White Coat Investor subreddit has only 55.9k members and is ranked Top 5% by size. The natural bodybuilding subreddit is up there with r/bogleheads (Top 1% ranked by size, 330k members) and r/medicine (Top 1% ranked by size, 460k members). I bring this up bc r/naturalbodybuilding is one of the premier place lifters flock to for dieting and training advice on building muscle and losing fat most effectively. Yet, as you will see below, it's full of midwit infused misleading advice. I am going to systematically go through a couple posts related to this thread below. Where do you go for good advice on dieting and training? Sadly, you will have to sift through a bunch of bullshit until you find someone who is competent, intelligent (intelligent enough they surpass the midwit valley), and has first person experience. Mind you, this critique below is only on this 1 topic. Don't even get me started on the fuckery that ensues on threads related to injuries.
OP:
"This phase seems to be going nowhere
I'm about 4 weeks into a cut and I've seen minimal movement on the scale and in body measurements. When I started this phase I was coming from 2900-3200 cals/day, went down to 2700 the first week, then 2500 the following, and then 2200-2400, and at 2100-2200 now. The scale went from 235 down to 230 in the first 2 weeks, but just bounces between 232-230 for the past 2 (trying to get to 220 by mid Jan). Biggest difference I've seen is my lifts are more of a struggle bus now. For instance, I was pushing a 255x6 flat bench, the week after I struggled with 245x8. My squat suffered from 295x7 -> 275x5 -> 225x8.
I expected the lifts to be less strong, but not this fast. And then to not even move what should be fat loss on the scale. I don't understand what I'm likely doing wrong with this. I hit my macro targets mostly (~210p, ~65f, ~206c), I get 6.5 hours of sleep on average during the week, maybe 8 or 9 on the weekends. To me it seems there's nothing left I could change to make this smoother and go in the direction I envisioned; I'll take whatever basic constructive criticism that can be provided."
Answers followed by my commentary below:
"It's possible you are burning fat but oddities of water retention and other factors of weight are masking that. Can't say for sure." —Oddities of water retention, often due to cortisol and overall stress, rarely ever show up at the beginning of the diet especially when the person isn't even near single digit body fat
"You should be getting a consistent 7-8 hours of sleep." —Plenty of the best bodybuilders of all time got by on 5 hrs of sleep. Also, the leaner you are the less sleep you need.
"you should be trying to hit 8 hours, even if 9 is harder. If you’re waking up at 04:30, that means being asleep by 20:30. It’s hard to know why that’s practically impossible for you without knowing the outline of your day (hours worked, responsibilities, routine etc). I will say that in working a shift pattern, I was getting to bed by 20:00 in order to be up at 04:00. You can get used to it fairly quickly if you don’t turbo the caffeine to compensate for poor sleep and get stuck in a cycle." —Lol. 8-9 hours of sleep. Good luck balancing making a lot of money outside of bodybuilding, maintaining a good romantic relationship, and raising a family. Going to sleep by 20:30 or 20:00?!?!?! Holy shit. Do you have a LIFE?
"Nothing is gonna happen in 1 month of cutting." —This is false. When you start a cut from a high body fat , BW should be dropping quite precipitously starting week 1. Heck, the BW should be dropping precipitously starting DAY 1.
"Go back to maintaining for a month and than restart.." —Uhh. Why?
"If you are advanced aim for a 200-300 deficit." —You're suggesting he cut kcals too fast. But what is his true maintenance? Better question. What is his maintenance RANGE?
"For reference I lost 8 kg over 9 months last year from 18-20 to 9-10 bf%." —1.96 lbs per month is way too slow. Many natural bodybuilders can get shredded from 12-14% bodyfat in ~14-16 weeks.
"Did you maintain weight for a couple weeks before you went for a deficit?" —There's something to be said for maintaining BW for a while after a bulk before cutting so you can solidify the gains but this isn't the reason why he's not losing BW. If anything, by not maintaining BW for a while after bulking, the BW should drop FASTER when he starts a cut bc the body is more willing to give up the BW (fat and lean tissue)
"I'd take your lifts. Drop the weight by 25%." —As long as rep range is reasonable, should not decrease weight lifted. More likely to lose muscle.
"But your cal cut is insanely drastic. Which means your bulk was 1000-2000cals unnecessarily high when you only needed 500 extra. Or your really stressing yourself out and messing your hormones into an unfavorable fat burning ratio." —Tell me you don't understand the metabolism without telling me. Again. What is his maintenance RANGE? Answer that question first.
"It should be +300-500 cals or -300-500 cals in either direction." —Says who? And what if refeeds are incorporated?
"At this point you might be better off just doing maintenance cals to start. Maintaining your strength on all exercises for a month just to prove you're actually at maintance and have proper recovery. And just cut cals by 50-100 every consecutive week until maintaining lifts feels more difficult. Then sit here until your weight stops dropping. Then add one more rest day and repeat." —Dude. Are you aiming to get lean in this lifetime or the next?
"And that's my whole motivation in telling you to go back to maintance calories and do as I described so you can get your cortisol down raise your T back up and most importantly fix your fat burning resting metabolic rate before starting your cut the right proper way because with what your describing with how dramatic of a calorie cut you've made with minimal results. You've crashed your resting metabolic rate which will result in muscle loss that'll be replaced with fat. Because your body thinks it's in survival mode now." —Lol. metabolic damage boogeyman.
"Also I don't think it was mentioned, are you even doing cardio? Please don't tell me the answer is 0. Yes you can fuck yourself up with excessive cardio. But trying to cut with no cardio is stupid. If your protein is sufficient and your not crashing your metabolism with ridiculous calorie jumps then cardio will actually accelerate your cut without burning muscle.
Even going from 0 cardio to 30 mins of LISS cardio walking on a treadmill with target HR of 130 BPM would literally turn your 300 cal deficit on when it wasn't working previously." —Overrated. Constrained TDEE.
"It's too soon to be judging the effectiveness of anything and you're making dramatic cal cuts week after week based on not enough time to let it work." —Again, should be able to see scale BW moving precipitously by day 1, definitely week 1.
"Nobody can tell you how and when exactly the strength loss is because it effects our leverages a little differently and with how the fat comes off, where it comes off." —OP just started his diet, only lost 5 lbs, nowhere near lean. Should have lost zero strength. Nocebo through and through.
"I calculate my tdee to be around 3200 (~2100 BMR + ~1100 active energy)." —These calculators are notoriously inaccurate.